Saturday, April 18, 2009

As i see it, we are attempting to re-grade the paper as it were. Now I have read a little more, though not all (sorry Marcus, My speed reading habits are rusty) and have yet to see the "racist" comments. You saw fit in your description of her professors to attribute different motives based on race, so why is it inappropriate to see the difference in the communities Black, White, Asian, etc.? These Communities have had different trials and motivations (albeit less so today by my reckoning)and as such can be explored. Much the same as the poor white coal mining community in the Kentucky Appalachians of the 60s and 70s were studied. So do you disregard the very discipline of sociology or is it just that we can not look at racial differences without being racist? There are arguments against the discipline although I haven't heard any of them from you. If we accept the course of study and press on to examine the nature of the communities that make up our society it is fair game to look at the forces that play upon them.

Thank you for pointing out that the Black people in this country have a very admirable position in this country presently. Both in reference to that of other communities in the world and the Black community historically. I have made that point in many discussions throughout the years.
Most recently in the discussions about morality and violence against women.

On to the paper:
there is a large segment of the Black community that is lower class and
as a result of the strong likelihood that respondents no belong to classes higher and more powerful, politically and economically, than the lower class largely because they have graduated from Princeton University, it is interesting to
see what their attitudes are towards a large majority of Blacks unlike themselves. Feelings of obligation to improve the life of the Black lower class, feelings of guilt for betraying the Black lower class, as well as feelings of shame or envy toward the Black lower class are investigated in this study.

No charge against whitey here.

Let's bring the discussion back into civility.

Wow! I am disappointed, although not surprised, at the tenor of this debate. I'm sure that someone googling this years from now might still be able to glean some cogent points out of all this. Who knows, it may even end up in some kid's thesis.

Let me try to get back on track as best I can. The discussion should be about the actual thesis and the question of is it racist or not. Let's try to steer away from personal attacks. Now..

You seem to be playing the victim here. I didn't "tell you you were wrong." I asked you to justify your statement and you couldn't do so at that point. You said you couldn't remember the exact words when I asked you to give me examples. This is fair enough as the topic came up extemporaneously and you hadn't read it in a few months. Here on this site, you've stated that I am making excuses for and acknowledging racism because I pointed out that a sociology thesis would by definition be extremely focused an a very thin slice of society. I am neither acknowledging nor excusing Michelle Obama's "racism". Please support that statement by showing me where you get the idea that I am excusing or acknowledging racism.

I don't think it's racist to notice and discuss/ask about something you observe. For example, why do Black people eat chitterlings (chitlins)? This is a fair question and can be explored. In 42 years, I've never met 1 White person that ate them, tried them yes, ate them as product of their raising no. I've met countless Blacks from all parts of the country and all strata, half million dollar homes down to tenements that love them. I've never tried them and never intend to personally. Now the question can be explored: it was the part of the hog that White slave owners didn't use and as such gave to their slaves. The Black slaves grew accustomed to and liked them. they carried this liking with them all throughout the country during the great migrations from the South in the late 19th century and the industrial migrations of the 20s and 30s.
Now that's no thesis, but it shows how one can take a narrow focus and delve into it a little and have to acknowledge the institution of slavery, the treatment of slaves and so forth.

To discuss the feeling of obligation to the Black community that one would have had growing up in an era of legal and traditional segregation is NOT racist. Furthermore, the quote you have selected is a mere personal reference to support the actual thesis statement:

This study tries to examine the following attitudes of alumni:
the extent to which they are comfortable interacting with
Black and with White individuals in various activities; the
extent to which they are motivated to benefit the Black com-
munity in comparison to other entities such as themselves,
their families, God, etc.; the ideologies they hold with re-
spects to race relations between the Black and White commu-
nities; and feelings they have toward the Black lower class
such as a feeling of obligation that they should help im-
prove the lives of this particular group of Blacks

Regarding your chosen excerpt: Her observation that her path would "likely lead to...assimilation" is hardly equated to force. As you state in one of your posts you are not a slave to white guilt or PC, but perhaps you are locked into a mode of thinking where any reference to the history that exists is invalid if it isn't pretty. And ultimately her prediction was wrong. She is hardly on the periphery of society. After all, she is First Lady.

Wednesday, April 15, 2009

Moving this to the front page fo further discussion


I’m assuming at this point you have taken the time to kind of read over Michelle Obama’s thesis. If not, here are just some pieces to look over.

Earlier in my college career, there was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the Black community I was somehow obligated to this community and would utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit this community first and foremost. My experiences at Princeton have made me far more aware of my "Blackness" than ever before.

These experiences have made it apparent to me that the path I have chosen to follow by attending Princeton will likely lead to my further integration and/or assimilation in a white cultural and social structure that will only allow me to remain on the periphery of society

She spends most of her time making claims with no citations. So my perception of her thesis is that she felt that she was being forced to assimilate and integrate with white folks and that this clearly caused her problems. So much that she based her entire thesis on the subject. Maybe she was playing a more intelligent game of chess, who knows. The point is she played the race card and she did it in a very distasteful manner. If a white person had written this then attempted to run for any political office within the land, they would be labeled a racist or that they harbored some animosity towards black America. It is quite clear Michelle Obama did in fact harbor issues with her white professors and peers. I realize in your eyes that if Ms. Obama showed some gratitude as well as some class that would be considered another form of submission by “Black America” as you clearly stated with the “Yesssum massa, thank ya thank ya”. My question is, why didn’t she just attend a predominantly black college if she wanted to avoid integrating with “white” America? If I wanted to attend an all black college, wouldn’t I have to integrate with the social structure of that school if it was predominantly black? Wouldn’t it be some what hypocritical of me if I complained about it? I do know that I would be viewed as an arrogant snob and obviously a racist if I ever did attend a black college and shared her same view points. I highly doubt that I would be able to play the race card in those conditions but maybe I’m wrong. Maybe my black professors would feel sympathy for me once they read my thesis and they would pass me.

Now, for Sunday morning. I appreciate you taking the time to break down the differences between those who came in to the country and those who were forced and those who were all around treated poorly. How the Irish at least had a chance to make their way through the hard times and were able to integrate with the rest of “white” America. I understood your point and again I appreciated you taking the time to lay it out in such a format. However, the end of that discussion was again how blacks have had it harder.

The whole reason we had that discussion was because two of your callers were referring to myself as being a “sleazy car salesman” and a “slave owner”. Once I rebutted, I was stifled by “calm down, what’s wrong with you, why are you so angry”. Again, liberals playing the victim in order to get their point across. Which I still do not see. Michelle Obama was in fact and may very well still be harboring a lot of animosity towards white people. Which in my eyes is racist. You may or may not agree but that is exactly how it looks and to be cut down by some assholes who clearly did not even look at her thesis, well it is disappointing.

We didn’t even touch on her militant “fight the white power structure” church which her and her husband attended for nearly twenty years. We become products of our environment do we not? Yes, she just overlooked everything her preacher was rattling on about and her husband, when he quotes the Reverend Wright within his books, someone else just put that there. It was evil whitey.

You see, this is where Eric Holder appears to be a moron. These are the reasons that discussions of race can not carry on. They are always one sided and they are fueled primarily by ignorance or white guilt. When actual facts are discussed, they are dismissed and the person who brings them to the table are referred to as being racist or in this case “slave owner”. I personally believe Michael, while you have great intentions, you too harbor some animosity towards white people. Lastly, I want to say thank you for letting me come down to the show. Obviously I offended you and some how, your callers. Either way I apologize for that and I hope things turn around down there. Good luck.